Earlier this month at the Slush tech conference in Helsinki, this editor had the opportunity to sit down with Sanna Marin, the popular former prime minister of Finland who became internationally known for socialize with friends, but whose achievements in office are much more significant, including getting Finland to join NATO to better protect the country from its neighbor Russia after its invasion of Ukraine.
Marin, who opted out of Finnish politics in September, today works at the Tony Blair Institute as a strategic advisor; She is also working on a startup with one of her lifelong partners. political advisors. Still, based on the enthusiastic crowd Marin attracted during our conversation at Slush, it's easy to imagine her eventual return to the political arena.
She didn't rule it out during our meeting. However, we spent much more time talking about what Russia's aggression means for the rest of the world, why women should more easily trust themselves in positions of power, and the promises and dangers of ai, and what they should what legislators can do about it. Here are excerpts from that talk, lightly edited for length and clarity.
In late 2019, he took on a job that is typically the culmination of a long career in public service, and he did so quite early (at age 34). What was it like for him to be pushed into that position?
Well, of course, when you accept that type of position or job, you are never fully prepared. When you do the work, you learn what the work is, so it's a leap of faith. In Finland we have had some female prime ministers, but if we look globally, the situation is not very good. We have 193 countries in the UN and only 13 of them are led by women, so the world is not very equal (when it comes to) leadership and never has been. I just hope that in the future we will see more female leadership in the world.
We're sitting here in front of a large audience of tech founders who are trying to break down walls and also break glass ceilings. What is your advice for them?
My main advice is to trust yourself. Believe in yourself. If you are in a position where you can take on a leadership position, then think, “Maybe I am capable.” Maybe I can do this.' Especially women, they often question themselves. Are they prepared for that job? Are they good enough? Can they do everything perfectly? Men don't think like that. They think 'Yes, I'm better.' I'm the best for the job.' I think women also need that attitude and they need support and encouragement to take risks and leadership positions, because women make good leaders. And if you are at that point where you can take that position it is because you are good and you are capable. So go ahead.
You went through a lot as Prime Minister. Shortly after his election, COVID took over the world. Last year, Russia invaded Ukraine. It has a very long and complicated relationship with Russia. You have a very long border with Russia. Can you remind us of that day when you heard the news (of the invasion) and what was going through your mind?
I remember it vividly, as if it were yesterday, because by then we knew that Russia was likely to attack Ukraine. During that (previous) summer, almost half a year before and throughout that fall, Russia, for example, slowed down energy flows to Europe to decrease the storage of different countries and, therefore, Russia could use energy as a weapon against Europe later. Russia also sent many troops near the Ukrainian border, saying it was a drill and they would not attack. Now we know that was a lie. Many leaders were in contact with Putin, trying to find diplomatic and peaceful routes out of the situation before the all-out attack began, and he lies to them all. Now we have to learn from that. I have said in many scenarios that Western countries, democratic countries around the world, should stop being naive. We should wake up to authoritarian regimes and (recognize that this is how) they operate and see the world and their logic is very different from that of democratic countries. In the case of Russia, we thought that because we have close economic and trade ties with Russia, those connections could ensure peace because it would be very costly and stupid to start a war. Because it's stupid. It's illogical, from our perspective. But authoritarian countries don't think like that. So it didn't prevent anything.
You've talked before about people's naivety when it comes to dealing with authoritarian governments, even when it comes to technology, where you think autonomy is also important. I have heard him express concern about Europe's extensive dependence on chips from China, for example. How would you rate Finland's progress on this front?
Finland is doing quite well compared to many other countries. . . When we look at technology, the most important thing is to invest in education from early childhood to universities (and invest heavily in) R&D and new innovations. . . In Finland we agreed that our goal is to increase our R&D funding to 4% of our GDP by 2030, which is actually a very ambitious goal. . . but I am an optimist and I want to believe that technology can really help us solve the big problems of the future, such as climate change, biodiversity loss, pandemics and other critical problems. So we need technical solutions. We need innovation. And we must ensure that we also have the platforms and the will to encourage their construction. . .
How would you rate the work of the European Commission?
In many ways, the situation in Ukraine has deepened the relationship between Europe and the United States and also with Britain. Europe as a whole has an important role in ensuring that we have good rules internationally when it comes to big tech and ai development. That is why we need ethical rules that all countries in the world should or should follow. I can see many risks if the European Commission or other legislative bodies do not work with entrepreneurs or private sector companies because the development of new technologies is very fast, so cooperation is key. And I would like to see more interaction and cooperation between the private and the public.
We are already seeing a lot of good things from ai when it comes to healthcare and education. We are also hearing more and more about the risks to humanity. I know you've been excited about ai for some time now. Has your view of your potential changed?
Every technology, everything new, carries risks. There is always a negative side to everything. But there is also a positive side, and that is why I would like to see more and more interaction between those who create the technology and the legislators who create the rules for these technologies. . . This way we can ensure that there are more positive aspects than negative aspects.
I love the work-life balance in Finland, and I also love that there is a certain aversion to outsized wealth, the opposite extreme of what we see in the US and especially in the Bay Area, where people They tend to value themselves based on how much money they earn. I wonder if that's a factor driving ambition here or to attract and retain entrepreneurs.
It is very important that you have balance in your life. If you just work, you can work very hard for a certain period of time, but then you will burn out. I think we should encourage ambition but also (ensure people) have free time that they can spend with their family. In fact, we revamped the parental leave system in Finland (when) I led the government to ensure that fathers are given more time to spend with their young children, while at the same time (making it more possible) for mothers to develop their careers. I've never met a parent who said, “I really regret spending time with my son when he was little,” right? Nobody ever says that. That time away from work gives people perspective.
He is now a political consultant and works for the Tony Blair Institute. What do you think of TBI's characterization as the 'McKinsey of world leaders'?
Well, (my long-time advisor Tuulia Pitkänen) and I used to do this, working in almost 40 countries around the world, advising governments and heads of state on different issues. Of course, it varies from country to country whether it has to do with agriculture, technology or many other things, and my job (at TBI) is (similarly) to advise heads of state and also different governments on certain issues. You know, when you're in that leadership position, leading a country, no one really understands that. You can't read it in a book, you have to experience it. So leaders need that kind of interaction: talking to people who really know the job and how difficult it is and all the factors that need to be considered when doing that job. So that's my job there. But I also do a lot of other things like speaking at different events and interacting with people. I still want to change the world. I haven't lost my passion for the issues (that forced me into) politics in the first place. I still have all those passions, but now of course I have more freedom to do other things and I'm open to them.
You were so popular as prime minister. You're also still at a very early stage in your career. Are you interested in returning to politics at some point?
I didn't say I would never return. Of course, it is a possibility. Someday, he might find that passion to pursue a political career once again. But for now I'm doing something else. And I think you always have to close some doors to open new ones. Closing some doors, doing something else, finding new paths has worked well for me so far. So I've never had a five or ten year career plan or any plan like that. I believe that opportunities come to you and then you take advantage of them or not. You can always choose. But my advice is that you don't plan your life too much because life is always a mystery and it is always unknown and that is why it is so interesting.
